MOVING PAST THE SAVIOR COMPLEX

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome to Woowooville, the next stop on your spiritual journey, hosted by two fellow travelers who found a soul connection on the path of higher consciousness. Our goal is to help you navigate the choppy waters you're likely to encounter on the spiritual path by sharing our experiences with with you each week. Join us as we spill the tea on what it's like to wake up to your authentic self. Hello, my name is Amaral and I'm here with. [00:00:30] Speaker B: I'm Lola Singer, and we have a topic today that came to mind because we're recognizing it as part of our own spiritual journey and we think it's fair to let people know about the potential pitfalls we can fall into. And this is one of them. [00:00:51] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:00:51] Speaker B: So we're titling this one moving past the savior complex, which is also known. [00:01:00] Speaker A: As white knight syndrome or Messiah complex. [00:01:04] Speaker B: And if you've probably heard one of those terms by now, but even if you haven't, I think you can piece together what we're referring to. Yeah, that need to feel like, I've awoken on the spiritual journey, now I can save you. Because I see, I am so enlightened now and you have not yet opened up to these certain gifts. So I'm going to swoop in and I'm going to save the day. And if you're on the spiritual path and you haven't experienced that, then I would say you're definitely in the minority because I know I did it and you did it, and I know other people around us who have done it. There's also that need to also early on where you're projecting what you think you would like to experience onto other people who seem more gifted. So you kind of want them to rescue you and save you. And nobody really needs saving. They need empowering. [00:02:13] Speaker A: So let's start with the definition of savior complex. A savior complex is like psychological construct where someone believes they are responsible for rescuing or fixing other people's problems, often to the detriment of their own well being. It's characterized by an excessive need to help others, sometimes to the point of neglecting their own needs and well being. Psychology Today says people with a savior complex may actively seek out those in distress or situations that perceive as needing fixing. [00:02:50] Speaker B: So this can be done on a mundane level. Like, you know, a lot of people I know because my mom was a nurse, a lot of people in the healthcare industry want to help save people. For example, they've got big hearts. They, you know, so it can be, it can be a sign of a situation that's coming because it seems very natural, but it also gets augmented, I think, in the course of the spiritual awakening. [00:03:20] Speaker A: And I think there's a really confusion between saving and help. There's a, like, a miss thing about it. So saving would entitle someone's life is in danger. So you're calling someone to help them, or. Or you're like, let's say you're providing for them. Cpr, if you know cpr, of course. Well, helping is a form of being there for someone. And as Lola said, when we start our spiritual journey, we start learning so much, and all of a sudden, for some weird reason, it all comes in and we're like, oh, well, I need to do this for others. But I think one of the things that we need to realize is where is it really coming from? Because a lot of the times, everything that we kind of tend to overreact about, it all starts with some sort of programming from us that. I know I can speak for myself, but growing up in a religious background, it was seen as you had to help others, always to the point where I interpret it as putting others before myself lots of times. And not only that, but it was almost like I always felt pressured, rather. Not that I wouldn't do it naturally, because I am a kind, giving person, naturally. But what I'm saying is when people frown upon meaning, like, if you're not trying to, like, help others because they feel like you need to, or they're telling you to do it, then somehow, some way, you're no longer a good person or you're being judged is not being a good person, I should say. And this can really cause some chaos in life. [00:05:19] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And then I, too, was raised by a mother who is very much about service. So, number one, she was a nurse. So we just talked about health professionals. [00:05:31] Speaker A: Right? [00:05:31] Speaker B: Give, give, give, give, give. Right. And then also, she was the Girl Scout leader, and I hated Girl Scouts. I always tell people I was the unhappiest Girl Scout ever. So I did not enjoy the acts of services that were supposed to make me feel good. So I was telling Amaral, for example, I didn't enjoy going to nursing homes and singing Christmas carols. That wasn't fun for me. I. You know, and I'm being told, you know, I'm being selfish because I don't want to do these things that I just simply don't enjoy. But, oh, you need to do it. You know, it'll be, you know, make everybody so happy. Well, everyone but me, apparently. So also, I was raised Lutheran. And the Lutherans always have all these volunteer things, you know, go to the soup kitchen and do this and you know, give to the poor. So there's always that you got, you know, you got to be selfless and volunteer to do these things because just like you, it's the, it's the right thing to do. It's the conditioning. And I'm not knocking that if that's what you guys like to do, because some people, that is fulfilling for them. [00:06:39] Speaker A: Yep. [00:06:40] Speaker B: But for me, I have never, I, I, I think, I guess looking, looking at myself, I'm more of service, having a good conversation and listening to someone and helping them come to, to their own aha moments than I am, you know, cutting up baloney sandwiches. It's just, I guess it's just, yeah, I just, just a different animal, apparently. [00:07:08] Speaker A: And don't, don't get us wrong, what we're saying is if you'd like to help others, more power to you. I think that's great. I think that's a great human trait. The reason why we want I'm. Every episode we try to address things too that we see they're affecting others. So the biggest thing that where the savior complex is really happening right now is we all know the media is always switching things around so that people feel bad about everything that's going on. I just had it recently where one of my friends on social media, she posted I don't understand how people can be taking vacations, going shopping and enjoying their life with everything that's going on. I mean, am I missing something here? And I just, I, for some reason her post really got to me because I'm thinking like, what are you talking about? So if we're really owning up, like, obviously this is coming from a savior complex of oh, you have to be suffering because the media that's trying to manipulate the way you want to you are thinking is saying to you, you should be suffering. Because it's portraying this world of suffering in. What's really interesting is I have clear so many people like negative people. Meaning because I don't, I feel that whatever I'm doing in life, it needs to project who I am so I don't feed into negativity. So people that are negative don't really have a room in my social media because I know that as we grow, we outgrow people that are no longer aligned with us. Not that I feel that I'm any better than anybody else. But another thing too that I saw even by a spiritual person was highlighted. We're at war. And I'm thinking like, are you at war with yourself? Because I don't. Like, I. It's just I can't like, I feel like the biggest split between 3D and moving forward as far as like awakening is that aspect of really owning up to your actions on where am I helping with certain things and where am I enabling things to happen and how am I coming forth and help others better. And so that to me that's really interesting because I feel like all of a sudden everybody's getting question about how good of a person you are based on how you're reacting to the chaos outside of you. In to me, when what really makes sense and what has really been resonating lately is the fact that during this times we're asked to go inwards because that's the only place where we can truly find our peace. Because it's almost like trying to find something to make you happy, happy outside of you. That's not going to be long lasting as well as is not really a solid foundation for you. So with this episode we're really trying to break down what it is to have that savior complex, how to spot it because sometimes it can be really sneaky too. And also what are some of the things that because of doing this, what it will create in your life as well as what things to practice to not be so involved in it. [00:10:36] Speaker B: Okay. And I think one of the things that we haven't really talked about yet, that is why we're talking about the savior complex is because it's all rooted in a need to feel needed and validated. So this is not coming from within like you're saying. So when someone puts a post out there like that, they're looking for the validation from someone else about what they're saying and what you. I think what you're trying to say is like if you're focusing on something, if you look at manifestation, if you keep focusing on that outcome and more and more people collectively focus on that outcome, the more likely that is to happen in our timeline. And so you do have a responsibility to decide what are you choosing to focus on and why. And I think the main thing we need to look at when we're talking about savior complex is and like once again, I'm pointing to myself early on in my own spiritual journey. Why, why? Why do I need to feel validated by someone else? [00:11:40] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:11:41] Speaker B: That's what I'm going to ask you to cue into for this entire broadcast. Kind of think about that's the main question. Why do I need to feel validated? Why do I feel like I should be the savior or that somebody needs to save me? Okay, so Amaral, you take it away because I know you were heading somewhere. [00:12:07] Speaker A: So one of the things that I did on as far as kind of going over the list of things that are how a savior complex affects you or affects us I guess plural. So the first thing that was listed was burnout and neglect of self care. The constant drive to help others can lead to emotional and physical exhaustion as the individual prioritizes others needs over their own potential. Neglecting self care and leading to health issues. I see this happening so much especially nowadays with like for example, someone that watches the news all the time. Their self care is completely out. Their nervous system is way just has. Is just so altered in. It's almost as if once people get into certain parts of this is what it's doing, it's like they don't see past themselves. Meaning they expect everyone to be at that point. So sometimes like I'm no longer really aligned to a lot of these type of people. But if you are, just know that that's part of their journey and that's like we all get to go through our journey. And yes, you can speak your truth as far as saying like I really don't think that certain practices you're getting into or certain things you're doing is really helping you out with being able to see things a little bit differently. But you can't expect that person to just change automatically just because you're speaking your truth. Even if you are truly and sincerely saying this is what has worked for me. It's interesting how we are being portrayed now by just because our biggest thing we need to do for humanity at this point is hold space. So part of holding that space for others means we're not affected by it. Meaning we can see the bigger picture. We can become the observers, but we also can provide. We can't provide a space for those that are willing are ready for that because that's the other key element. You can't just demand for people to listen to you. You can't think that you saying something to someone, it's going to magically create them to just change how they're seeing life or what they're processing in life. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Well, and it all comes down to if we have that urge to save others, they're not learning their life lessons. Sometimes we're trying to take on their life lessons for them because we feel like we're stronger than they are or more enlightened than they are. So I can take the bullet for them basically. And that also leads to not self care for yourself, which is your topic. Because really true spiritual awakening comes from examining yourself, not from trying to save others. So when you're neglecting yourself, how are you going to have that opportunity to take a hard look at yourself so that you can transcend what needs to be addressed so that you can change and raise your own vibrations. How are you going to do that if you're not caring for yourself? Because you're so busy caring for others people. [00:15:42] Speaker A: And what's, what's really comes up for me is that the forms of how we're listening to supposedly it's happening outside of us. There's no such thing as good news on the news now. And not only that, but every single news thing talks about the same thing. They might turn twist things around, but it's pretty much the same thing. So it's so interesting to me because I'm just thinking like it's such a mind control, like the media has turned into such a mind control system that only those are really able to step away from it and start really seeing what's going on and seeing how it's altering yourself as far as how it's stressing you out, how really it can take a toll on your health because the more negative you're thinking or the more fear based mentality you're falling into, the more you're going to bring in sickness, the more you're going to be not feeling very well or not even feeling any good things about life. When I mean we all create our world with our thoughts and emotions. So if we're not putting those thoughts and emotions to a good practice, then we're not going to see the world as a good thing to be in. [00:17:00] Speaker B: So one of the things that when I was looking into savior complex here is that and it goes with self care too. Well, first of all, realizing you can't save everybody, you just can't, you know, so who can you help? Yourself, right? But boundaries, it's all about healthy boundaries. And is it healthy for you to feel like you have to step in and save someone from their own possible life lesson. [00:17:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:31] Speaker B: Does that feel like it's healthy boundary? I'm just asking you so you can think about that out there. Doesn't sound healthy to me. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Well, and just put yourself in their shoes. So when you were walking your own journey and even if there was a lot of aha moments did you realize you have to change. But didn't you enjoy walking your own journey? Why would anyone be okay with somebody just telling them that the way they're thinking at that time is wrong and that they have to look at things differently? The next thing on the list is strained relationships. Treating loved ones as perpetually broken and needing to be fixed can lead to resentment, codependency, and imbalance in relationships, as healthy boundaries are often eroded. And the savior may become irritable and detach if their help is rejected. [00:18:36] Speaker B: Because once they're projecting expectations onto other people, if I do this, I expect them to, let's say, rise to a certain level and people. That's disempowering to other people, isn't it? I mean, I guess we can be beacons and we can offer suggestions and we can live by example, but trying to change, especially a family unit when you're. When you're with them. [00:19:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:07] Speaker B: At least most of the evening, if not more. [00:19:10] Speaker A: Doesn't this remind you of holiday dinners? Like, almost like the topics that you can't talk about unless you want chaos to arise? [00:19:22] Speaker B: Yes, it does. There you go. Healthy boundaries. Is that a healthy thing in this family situation, to ignore politics, for example, and just have a nice meal together? Sometimes it is. Yeah. But I honestly, I'm listening to you talk about that family situation, it's like I would be resentful personally. And if someone was constantly trying to tell me, I'm doing some, I need help, I'm doing something wrong, eventually I would. If not giving them the mental finger, I might end up giving them the physical finger at some point. [00:20:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:08] Speaker B: I mean, that's the whole point with the spiritual awakening. You know how they talk about divine timing? You know, it's like. It's like somebody's trying to push someone else's growth. And divine timing, it's like you have to fit it into my paradigm. I'm going to squeeze you into my little. My little timeline here. And that's not respecting other people's level of personal growth, because we have our own aha moments, for example, and they're unique and they're based on what we're experiencing ourselves. So can you force. I guess you could force someone to have an aha moment, but I don't think they'd appreciate it. [00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:50] Speaker B: Unless they're. Well, let me think about. Because they might be spiritually ready for like a, you know, like a straightforward talk or something like that. But this sounds like, you know, someone really trying to make them live up to the A script. [00:21:02] Speaker A: Almost exactly. And so, see, that's the difference. I feel that if you're going to go on someone and start preaching to them, no, you have to do it this way and this and this and this. Then, yeah, they have all the right to be resentful. They have all the right to lash out at you because technically you're telling them what to do. [00:21:21] Speaker B: And if we play this to the spiritual journey, I could see that as being, you know, there's different modalities and different areas of study and pursue that eventually lead people to spiritual growth, no matter what. But if you're like, for example, like, let's say somebody has a big spiritual awakening because they've been going to see this person who's a speaker, okay. And they have this wonderful aha moment. And then they're just pushing the speaker on everybody else. And, you know, so you got to watch this person, you got to listen to this person. You know, we got to go see them when they come to town. And the other person might not relate to that speaker at all. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Yep, that's true. But see, here's the other part where, like, it was the second part of what I was saying. You can still speak your truth. If you're being asked, what do you think about this? Then that's the moment. [00:22:20] Speaker B: Yes. That opens the door. [00:22:21] Speaker A: Then you speak your truth. Because then you say how you feel about things or how you feel about it. But that's an open invitation for you to share. [00:22:30] Speaker B: But that's like, for in this example. Well, that's why I learned a lot from this particular speaker who's a public speaker. Would you like to know more about this person? Can I tell you about this person? That's a different than just kind of constantly barraged, getting barraged about that. You know, you have to do it this way, like you said. [00:22:47] Speaker A: Well, and that's the mismark that I feel like even people that are spiritual. Miss. Like, for example, when you're being asked about your how you feel about certain situation, then you can speak on it with you, how you truly, sincerely feel about it. But when someone's expressing how they feel about it, if you intrude and say, no, you're wrong, this is the way you should be thinking about. It's kind of like putting yourself in their shoes and how you would feel about it. [00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah, but if it's savior complex and they need to feel validated, they're going to keep doing that, aren't they? [00:23:18] Speaker A: Yep. But that's also spotting that savior complex because it's like, so just think when you're being asked in your gen gen, like genuinely spiritual speaking for yourself, that's the right way. When you're doing like trying to push on someone or trying to change their beliefs. And that is part of the savior complex that's acting out within you. The other thing is sense of failure and frustration. The inherent impossibility of solving all or of another person's problems can lead to a persistent feeling of failure, guilt and frustration. When attempts to save are unsuccessful or when one's help is not appreciated or is ultimately unhelpful. [00:24:07] Speaker B: Seems to go to the first one because I'm putting myself in. In the mindset of people who are don't think they need to be saved. So why does this person keep doing this? [00:24:20] Speaker A: Yeah, but see, this really brings out for me, for example, a few things that have been happening lately has been me being able to really go in and seeing where before I was using that savior complex with people that I love. Like, for example, people are really close to me. The two people that come to my mind is like my husband and my mother. Now I'm able to listen to them. And before I would get so frustrated because I would be like, I can't believe that even though I'm telling them what they should be doing or what would help them with their situation, they're not listening to me. So they're choosing to go on their own path. So I would just be resentful. Like, I would be frustrated. I would feel guilty because I felt like, why can't I help them? But I realized that some people don't want to get help. In fact, a lot of people don't want to get help because they have to come to it on their own terms. And that's what we forget about that just as we had a choice on choosing, we're going to go a different path. We're not going to go like everybody else goes or what they think. We're going to actually explore further what really resonates with me, what really aligns with me. So when we're not practicing those things, then we kind of, kind of put ourselves in that kind of on awkward stage because we're not respecting their own journey. Like, if you truly say you love someone, you can't just say, I love you, but I need you to be this way. Because that's conditional love, which I mean. [00:26:08] Speaker B: And the spiritual journey is about learning unconditional love. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Yes. And here's the crazy thing. I grew up with conditional love my entire life. Right. So I'm able to spot on conditional love from like, miles and miles away. Because for me, it's like, literally. I mean, she's come so long, far past from that, thank God. But she would literally say things such as, you know, I would really love you more if you did this. Literally. Not even hiding it or anything, just saying it. And as a kid, I was like, okay, I'll do that, because then that will, like, you would love me more for it later on as an adult. I was like, that was such a toxic behavior and I didn't know any better. [00:26:52] Speaker B: And you would have believed it. [00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:54] Speaker B: Well, then I'm gonna earn more love from my mom. [00:26:56] Speaker A: Exactly the things we go through. But it's good there were lessons. Now I'm grateful because those were lessons I needed to learn. [00:27:06] Speaker B: And the lessons I think we learned on the spiritual journey by trial and error as well, is that you just can't force people. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:27:16] Speaker B: To be following a certain paradigm. You can't. [00:27:20] Speaker A: Exactly. As much as we would like to, the next one in the list says emotional and mental health issues. The constant pressure of being the Savior and the potential of unmet expectations can contribute to mood related symptoms, resentment, anxiety and depression. That is very, very true. [00:27:43] Speaker B: Well, this makes sense to me from a clinical standpoint because the whole reason that the savior complex exists is for validation. So it's already built on some. Something where some. Someone doesn't. They feel uneasy about themselves. [00:27:59] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:27:59] Speaker B: So how could it not keep growing and growing and growing if they're not getting that validation that they're seeking? Yeah, of course it would lead to all these other things. [00:28:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I find it. I always like to get to the source of my things. I can't say this is the source of other people. But, for example, the whole savior complex, to me, it really rose from religious programming. When I was growing up in Catholicism, it was very much about, you always have a savior that's going to save you, but in order for that Savior to save you, you have to do A, B and C. And as you learn that, or at least as you get indoctrinated with that, then you think that that's the same thing goes to you, but you apply it to other people. So now all of a sudden, because you've been taught your entire life that there's a savior outside of you that's supposed to rescue you. So now you're gonna also be godlike, for lack of a better word, and try to save others, which doesn't ever work. But what I'm saying is just I'm explaining my way of how it all got started and translated into other ways practices as I grew up. [00:29:21] Speaker B: Well, I think, you know, most people who went to any type of. I'm going to. I'm even going to include the Girl Scouts in this. Any kind of service oriented training which would include church schools and things like that too. We were taught the natural thing is that for us to sacrifice ourselves and adopt that martyrdom kind of mentality. I'm so good because I suffer or you know, I'm so good because I'm putting myself out to do this. You know, I would rather be to something else. But aren't I noble because I'm doing this instead? [00:30:04] Speaker A: I'm so not selfish for putting others before my own needs. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Yes. I think that was the hypocrisy I really didn't like in the Girl Scouts. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Always in religious practices too. [00:30:15] Speaker B: Yeah. So we're trained to help others. Yes, yes. And we want to help others. I think there's a natural tendency for us to want to help people like you said, when they're in true peril. Right. But I think sometimes it's more ego driven. You know, I'm going to feel good if I extend this help to someone else because I was trained to believe this is how I get validation. [00:30:48] Speaker A: Exactly. So then it brings us to our next in the list is stagnation and lack of personal growth. The intense focus on being a savior can prevent the individual from addressing their own internal struggles, fears or pain, leading to a feeling of being stuck in in that identity and hindered personal growth. [00:31:16] Speaker B: Well, if you're focusing on someone else, you can't focus on yourself. It seems pretty obvious to me. [00:31:22] Speaker A: Yep. When you put things on hold and then you feel like if the worst feeling in the whole wide world, it's feeling like if. If you don't go and save someone, you can't be happy about your own things or how things are going in your life. Which that's such a programming. It takes a while to break out of that one. But I can definitely say that I was part of that for sure. [00:31:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So if we talk about personal stories and I'm hoping people can relate to this. When I first started my spiritual journey, it started by me meditating and then over time spontaneously speaking and singing in light language. And I could feel the benefits of light language in my body. I mean I could feel it was shifting me emotionally and the chemistry of my body, those sounds. So I got on this ego trip which is like, oh, I've got this great gift. At the time, not very many people were expressing that. They did light language. So this is like 11 years ago, something like that. No, more than that. And so it's like, oh, this is my gift. This is my special gift. I'm so special. I'm gonna share this gift. Oh, I'm gonna save the world. I'm gonna share my sounds, and it's gonna heal everyone and everything. And it's interesting how that ego got titillated and all in service of other people. Oh, that ego's tricky, isn't it? [00:32:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:59] Speaker B: Oh. So I wanted to bring this up on a personal level because you might experience this or witness this with other people as they start to develop their own. As they shift themselves mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and start developing gifts that they didn't really recognize they had before. That ego is going to come into play. And that ego is being fed by this. Oh, I can save everyone else. And that's why I wanted to do this topic today, because, no, you can't save everyone else. [00:33:37] Speaker A: But isn't that so interesting, too, because. So I had a conversation the other day with someone, a friend of mine, and he was telling me how. He's like, oh, did you hear about this whole thing and the riots and stuff? And I was like, no, not really, because I'm not really focused on that. And he was just saying how with the riots and stuff and it's going to cause this and it's going to cause that. And I'm thinking like, whoa, you just, like, went from that to, like, whole bunch of steps into the future. And I said, well, do you believe that you can manifest the life that based on your thoughts and emotions? And he goes, yes. So he's like. So I said, so if you had to focus on what you're bringing in, why would that focus be what you're talking about? And he kind of was like, well, this is just what's happening. And I'm like, but you. Part of you planting seeds for your future is also what's happening, because that is present time. That is you taking the initiative of which world do you want to see? And I think that sometimes that's. That where people really miss the mark is like, we know it's not like the world splitting into two, but we definitely can split as far as what part of the world and what we're focusing on and what we're listening to based on what we're giving our energy to. That's where people miss that mark. [00:35:02] Speaker B: A lot of Times, well, I'm missing the mark. So how is that tying into what you want to say about savior complex? [00:35:09] Speaker A: Well, because of the fact that they want to be saviors. Like they want like these people to be there. They can't have peace because they want the world to be at peace. So that's the part where it's the savior part because they think that in order for them to be at peace with themselves, the world needs to function a certain way. Isn't that like, kind of like the same thing as savior complex as far as you want it to go a certain way in order for you to have that peace within yourself, for you to move forward and to plant seeds into your future? [00:35:46] Speaker B: I'm thinking, guys, but anyways, I guess, I guess so. But I think of savior complex more being like I was talking about more kind of like ego driven. And you know, I'm so noble if I, if I martyr myself, that kind of thing. So one of the things I want to read you from something I looked up was about how it's related to what I said about thinking, oh, I've got this gifts now, you know. So this is something I found online. It says that about that, about how do we tie in spirituality and the awakening process to the savior complex? And I like this. It says that spiritual awakening often brings a sense of heightened empathy. True, right. You become more aware of other people, you become more heart centered. So this isn't always coming specifically from ego, but the fact that, oh, I can, I can sense now that this person is hurting or this collective, you know, could really benefit from a change, things like that. Right. So this heightened awareness of the interconnectedness of all becomes heightened and that can lead people to believe that they are meant to heal or save others, especially when they sense others are suffering or stuck in their own journeys. So this comes from a desire to help people find peace, wholeness and enlightenment. It sounds noble, but it is falling into that category of I need to fix somebody. So I think that was a very important point there, the empathy. So as we get this heightened awareness, of course we feel this. We can feel the uneasiness of a group or person. And of course we naturally want to help them. But once again it comes into the is that person ready for that help or not? So. So I guess this is a good way to learn discernment, isn't it? [00:37:56] Speaker A: Yep. [00:37:56] Speaker B: It's like, why do I feel like I want to save this person now? That doesn't mean you can't hold a hand out. Doesn't mean you can't offer, but if they don't accept that offer, then it's not your duty or obligation to keep going at it. You need to respect their boundaries, too. So it also talks about ego here, which is what I was talking about too. It says that individuals can see themselves as more enlightened, more advanced, or more connected than others. And so the impulse, like we talked about earlier, is genuine to help, but the underlying attachment to the role of savior can create a false sense of superiority and purpose. And I think that's the trap I fell into with the light language early on. Yeah, because I, you know, started a YouTube channel and, you know, this is going to save the world. And it didn't, you know, but certain people liked it, so. And responded to it. So it's helpful to individuals. [00:39:04] Speaker A: So I guess the only thing that really brings up is that part that also another way of applying the savior complex, it's expecting others to think like you, to act like you, and to pretty much function in order for you to have a peace. Like, if you're thinking that the world needs to function at your level, that's kind of savior complex as far as you putting yourself as a. Like, this is the way to be, or this is the only way for me to be at peace. And I don't think that that's. That's also like, we'll put right. [00:39:38] Speaker B: It's individual. And an example that's coming to mind was when I was early into spirituality, I was going to a spiritual center in Seattle, and they had a lot of different classes and different speakers. So it wasn't any one particular thing that they were trying to push on anyone. But the person who. One of the people who ran the centers was really into transcendental meditation and a certain yogi who was associated with that. And the way she would talk about that yogi, and he was world renowned. And every once in a while he come to Seattle because he had such a. She was such an adherent of his that, you know, he would deign to actually come to the Seattle venue. And so she was kind of pushing that on people. And I don't think it was ill intended, but I. I'm not into gurus one bit. But it was weird because even like after. After he had gone to the center and spoken, she had put down like some kind of like rice paper or something for him to walk on. It must have been a tradition. And then she was like storing this rice paper like it was holy, you know, and it's like, so it could come from a well meaning source, but when you feel like somebody's almost being dogmatic about it. [00:41:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:41:10] Speaker B: It's, it's probably going to backfire on you. [00:41:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:14] Speaker B: When you, when you feel like people are. Well, when you don't realize you're actually being kind of pushy. Yeah. [00:41:21] Speaker A: So the last thing on the list is attraction to vulnerability and codependency. Individuals with a savior complex may be drawn to people who appear to need help fostering codependent dynamics and potentially creating unhealthy relationship patterns. [00:41:41] Speaker B: Oh, I've seen that, haven't you? [00:41:42] Speaker A: Oh, many, many times. [00:41:44] Speaker B: But I mean even in the spiritual community. [00:41:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I've even seen it with relationships. Like people, they start dating the same people over and over again with those kind of dependencies on them and like they're trying to save them or they're trying to. It's just so, so interesting. And then once they break out of that pattern, then they finally, finally find someone that they say like, oh, I'm more at peace with this person. And it's like all along it was that peace they have to find within, within themselves. [00:42:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm kind of going back to like thinking about like spiritual centers and stuff. And the word I'm hearing this is coming from the guides. It's almost like you're trolling for a spiritual date. It's not like you're going in there to experience whatever the offering is there you're, you're trolling for. Is there possibly someone here who can fulfill me, who might be on the spiritual path? And that's, that's just. Oh, that sounds just coming out of desperation, doesn't it? [00:42:46] Speaker A: Yes. And not only that, but the other thing too that I've, I've learned from like my experiences is that growing up, whatever we're going through and we're dealing with and we especially the things that we haven't healed, we're going to have this magnetic charge to those people that are, with those things that we haven't healed to come to us, to go into our lives. And some people are like, well, my life, I'm always attracting this, or I'm always around these kind of people. And it's not until we realize like, wait, so the one thing in common here is me. So what is it that I'm doing? [00:43:25] Speaker B: There you go. [00:43:26] Speaker A: Perfect. That's attracting me. [00:43:27] Speaker B: That's the epiphany. Because yes, even on the spiritual chat, spiritual journey and you've grown. That doesn't mean you're still not going to encounter people you're attracted to from the wounds of the past. [00:43:43] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:44] Speaker B: So there are alcoholics on the spiritual path. There are drug addicts on the spiritual path. [00:43:50] Speaker A: There are narcissists. [00:43:54] Speaker B: I was going to say closed off emotionally. People who are on the spiritual path, they may not be as far as you are. They're trying. They're at least putting their foot in the water and going places. [00:44:06] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:44:07] Speaker B: But just because they show up on the spiritual journey doesn't mean they're. They're. That you're attracted to them for their. The light they're shining. You might be attracted for the wounds that you both share. [00:44:20] Speaker A: Exactly. And yes, everyone in our lives mirrors something within us that we are ready to heal. So they are. If you're looking at the big picture, everything is helping you to grow when you're actually paying attention to your lessons. However, we do get, like. Just as like anybody else, we get stuck in that savior complex of, I think I can help them, I think I can change them, I think I can save them complex. And that's why it's so interesting because, I mean, we do so many things, like, well, I do so many things spiritually, and every once in a while I run into someone that I really. We never mind helping, like if somebody has certain questions and stuff. But isn't it weird when it goes from you're helping them to now you're enabling them because what they want you is to help them do the work for them. And you're like, well, I can't really help you there because that's work you have to do yourself. You can't do the inner work for anyone. [00:45:26] Speaker B: No, but you can. You can hold space. [00:45:28] Speaker A: Exactly. You can lead them to where you can share your experiences and how you were able to surpass certain things, but you can't actually do their journey. Yeah. [00:45:40] Speaker B: No. Okay. One of the other things I think is really important that I found online again, that I actually want to read verbatim because it's. It's so good to be aware of, is the role of compassion versus rescue. Okay. Compassion is an essential part of the spiritual awakening process. However, compassion and rescue are two very different things. Compassion allows space for others to be where they are, while recognizing that healing and growth are personal journeys. Exactly what you just said. Right. Rescuing someone, on the other hand, assumes that the other person cannot save themselves or that their growth is dependent on your intervention. This often stems from the belief that you have the answers or that you are the only one who can help the spiritual awakening journey teaches that we are all capable of self healing and self empowerment. And true compassion encourages others to. To step into their own power rather than staying in a state of dependency. I am going to read that last sentence again because it's so important. Ready? The spiritual awakening journey teaches that we are all capable of self healing and self empowerment. And true compassion encourages others to step into this their own power rather than staying in a state of dependency. Now does that not go with everything you were just saying? [00:47:17] Speaker A: Yes, it really does. I love that how it's worded too. [00:47:23] Speaker B: It's beautifully and it's just so concise. So. [00:47:29] Speaker A: It'S interesting too because so yesterday I was talking to Lola of this during lunch. I. I ran into this really good video. Like it was such a good portrayal of, of traumas, like inner traumas their inner child gets by having certain kind of parents. And I felt so strongly led to just send it to my mom because I know she goes through so much and it wasn't like a saint beer thing. It was more of a, like, let's see what it does for her if it really resonates or not. And her response was, oh, this really resonates with me. And so then I felt, I felt guided to write something about spirituality and how a lot of the times when people see it from the outside, the first thing they question is like, oh, you're going to have me change my God or how I see God. But when really spiritual awakening and healing is about our own journeys, it's about our own healing and it's about us finding that peace by healing ourselves. [00:48:36] Speaker B: But it's also in finding our own divine connection. [00:48:40] Speaker A: Yep. And so I just wrote this that I really wanted to get it out. And I've been wanting to get it out for so long. But it was just more of a. I want to communicate with her what really my path has been. It. I don't need a validation from her. I just want her to be aware of where I'm at now because I know I've changed so much that sometimes she has a hard time understanding when I'm coming from. And I read it, I felt really good about it, I send it and I know she read it and she never responded. And it's not because I needed the validation of a response. I just, I just felt good letting it out. And that's the differences between having an expectation. Like if I was like, oh no, that's gonna change my mother. It was never about that. It was more about planting that seed and Me finally being able to use something to get my point across of where I'm at and who I am now so that she could understand more of where. Who I am now and how I'm seeing life. Because if I would have had an expectation of, no, this is gonna change her life and stuff, that would have been really savior complex. [00:49:53] Speaker B: And you would have failed miserably. [00:49:55] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:49:58] Speaker B: So I guess maybe the point is don't give up trying, but don't become dogmatic about it, for lack of a better word. You know, And I think the most important thing we've been hearing is that people have their own journeys. [00:50:16] Speaker A: Yes. [00:50:17] Speaker B: And we can support them on the journey, but you can't literally walk their walk with them. You can assist them along the way, but you can't actually do the entire walk with them. [00:50:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:33] Speaker B: And then we also need to be realistic as people on the spiritual path, we actually have to. Because remember, the journey's within. Right. We have to look within and say, ah. Am I doing that because of ego? Am I doing this because of my own martyrdom issues? Am I doing this because of my training that service. Service is more important than me. So, you know, it forces us to. I mean, if. To take an honest look. And that's why I wanted to be real honest about what it was like with me when I first started, because I fell into that trap. I did. [00:51:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I did. I don't think there's any of us that can't realistically say while we started, because we started, like, the first part of it. It's like connecting to those higher chakras. So everything's so love and light and stuff. And we start thinking, well, why wouldn't we want this for everybody else? [00:51:31] Speaker B: That's true. Because we're not very grounded at first. At least I wasn't. [00:51:34] Speaker A: I wasn't very grounded either. And then there. It's that. That first part when you're like. So like. [00:51:40] Speaker B: It's kind of. It's kind of like, you know, the honeymoon phase in a relationship. [00:51:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:44] Speaker B: But better, right? [00:51:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And so why wouldn't we want those great feelings for others? So that's when we really go into, like. No, like you. You have, like, you have to experience this. You have to come along in. I mean, we all have also the back. Our background of religious practices where they're like, constantly telling us, like, this is the way to save others. So it's like, before we heal our religious programs, that also plays out. So there's just so many things that really play out amongst ourselves that it's like we can acknowledge that we've all been there once upon. Upon a time. We're not trying to make you feel guilty. We're not trying to say, oh, you're perfect. And you, like, we have never done this because we both just confessed the different layers that we've done. So what we're trying to say is more like, help you with, like. Like acknowledging this stage and acknowledging where it comes from for you to be able to make better decisions. That's all. We can't. We're not going to say this is like life changing. [00:52:59] Speaker B: I want to rephrase that because I don't want to say better decisions because it sounds judgmental. [00:53:04] Speaker A: That's true. [00:53:05] Speaker B: But just an awareness. [00:53:06] Speaker A: Yes, awareness. I like awareness. [00:53:08] Speaker B: Awareness of potentials, what can happen. Like we talked about. For me, the ego. For you being trained, that you always have to give of yourself before anybody else. It comes from wounds that need addressing. So. So. So if you find that you've been in this trap or you're currently in this trap, this is your chance to examine it and say, what do I need to heal within myself? Right. So it's always a life lesson. It's always something you can grow from. So you. Right. We're not trying to tell people that. Then we'd be the dogmatic ones. Right. That you've made poor choices. Because we've. We've made certain choices. We've learned and grown from them, and we recognize that in others. Are we trying to save you in this broadcast? No, we're just trying to give you awareness. [00:54:03] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:54:07] Speaker B: Who. I hope that didn't sound dogmatic and preachy because that was not my intention. [00:54:15] Speaker A: No, I think. I think that because we have opened up to really express ourselves, using ourselves as an example for different experiences we had, we're just. We're just going through our journey and these are the things that we have discovered ourselves about ourselves. And we're hoping that these experiences help others to really see those pitfalls, I guess, for lack of a better word. [00:54:42] Speaker B: And that's why we started the podcast. So you. I wish. These are things I wished I knew earlier. So it's purely for awareness. And you can take it or leave it and learn from what we've learned, or you can file it away into the nowhere file, but we're just out there to offer it to you. And you can choose from the platter we're offering or not choose from the platter we're offering. [00:55:13] Speaker A: And you know, the one thing that's really surfacing up right now that spirit's really like trying to address is that emotions. Emotions can be a guideline of where we're still holding ourselves up to. So, for example, let's say you are dealing with anyone or you're going about your life, and all of a sudden emotions come out that make you feel weird about something that's signaling where there's work to be done. [00:55:41] Speaker B: And especially some of the things you talked about earlier, like being frustrated because somebody isn't changing or they don't want to talk about what you want to talk about. [00:55:49] Speaker A: Being upset on the spiritual path, being disappointed. Those are all emotions that really connect with that whole part of the savior complex. And, you know, it's. So once you're really in the path of. I am no longer sugarcoating my own journey. I want to learn more about myself. I want to be able to experience life in a way where I'm learning lessons. And show me, like, really, you are honest to yourself and you say to the universe, to God, whatever you want to call it, show me where I need work to be done. It will be shown to you. As long as you're using honesty, you will see the areas where. Where you need help. And we all have those areas. [00:56:37] Speaker B: Yeah, we're always a work in progress, aren't we? [00:56:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:56:41] Speaker B: We're just fine tuning all the time. [00:56:43] Speaker A: Yep. [00:56:44] Speaker B: Yeah. So savior complex can actually ultimately be a gift of awareness, can't it, that you can use as a tool for your own. Not only self discovery, but and self growth, but for your own release of emotions that need to go, thoughts that need to go, concepts that aren't serving you anymore. So it can. It's. It's like a gift in disguise, I guess, isn't it? [00:57:15] Speaker A: Yes, it is. Well, thank you so much for tuning in. Again, share with your people that could benefit from this. And we want to do. And we want to thank. We want to thank our sponsor, which is mystical wares with a lot of. [00:57:36] Speaker B: Magical items@st mysticalwares.com including Shungite. [00:57:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:57:42] Speaker B: So thank you for your patronage. [00:57:45] Speaker A: Yes. And please check them out and we'll. [00:57:48] Speaker B: See you in about a week. [00:57:49] Speaker A: Yep. [00:57:50] Speaker B: Bye.