Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Woowooville, the next stop on your spiritual journey. Welcome to Woowooville, the next stop on your spiritual journey. Hosted by three fellow travelers who found a soul connection on the path to higher consciousness. Our goal is to help you navigate the choppy waters you're likely to encounter on the spiritual path by sharing our experiences with you each week. Join us as we spill the tea on what it's like to wake up to your authentic self. My name is Ameril.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: I am Lola.
[00:00:36] Speaker C: I'm Pamela.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: And what's happening at the tea party today?
[00:00:41] Speaker A: Today we're going to be talking about spirituality, the trapped.
And you would probably won't be wondering what does that mean? So we're going to go over is just because you're spiritual, there's a lot of little traps that people think that spirituality is or that follow. So we're going to talk about a few of the traps so that, that way you're clear about it.
And the first thing we're going to be talking about is the differences between spiritual versus religion.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Before we do, can I put in a disclaimer?
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: When you're in a trap, you don't know you're in a trap.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: So we're not trying to offend anybody or trap anyone. We were in traps and we recognized it and so we're sharing what we've perceive as trap.
[00:01:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Honestly, if you're in your trap, you will probably don't know.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
And this is great. I actually, I thank you, Lola, for bringing that up because that is true. When you're in a trap, you don't know.
So first we're going to start with spirituality and religion. I can only speak for myself as far as what I've shared, but spirituality is going within and finding out who you truly are by shedding away who you're not. Religion is following something outside of you and seeking acceptance as well as validation outside of you.
How would you guys put it?
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Perfect. It's always looking at the external.
[00:02:11] Speaker C: I think the other difference that I've seen is that religion is there's usually somebody at the top that is a go between.
You don't have a direct source.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:25] Speaker C: Typically to, to access that higher power. And so there's a person put in place there that you go to that kind of like takes that. That spot. Whereas spirituality, you are in direct line and communication.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: I do want to, being a recovering Catholic, I do want to mention a few things that I, I do know specifically about Catholicism.
First, there wasn't a division between religion and politics back in the day, pretty much religion will tell you who you vote for, who you choose. So that was one of the things that was really followed. The other thing too, all of the Bibles were written in Latin and, and the only people that would speak Latin would be the priests because they didn't want other people's knowing, which that was very strange to me, I must say, because. But then it makes sense because you don't want people, you want people to follow something but not to question it.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: They want you to be dependent on them.
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Exactly. So I did wanted to share that factor that I growing up in Catholicism, I found out. But again, that's just like, it's kind of one of those things that blows your mind, but at the same time you kind of bring it together. Was like, well, at least I'm no longer following that.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: But that applies to other religions too, because there's always a mediator like Pamela's saying, it could be an imam, it could be a rabbi, it could be a priest or a minister. Yep. I just want to read a quick definition because it goes exactly with what you're saying. But just in case the audience needs convincing, when I put in a Google search just now for spiritual versus religion, the AI answer, which is usually more succinct than others, says while related, spiritual refers to a personal connection to something larger than oneself, often focusing on inner meaning and purpose. Like you said, while religion describes a structured system of beliefs and practices, usually within an organized community with specific doctrines and rituals to connect with the divine. So basically the religion connects you to the divine, but spirituality says, but you are already connected to the divine. Yep, that's the main difference.
[00:04:46] Speaker A: Yes. I love that. Thank you for sharing that.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and you know, Pamela and I both had to go to, you know, like kids, we had to go to church school and stuff. So, you know.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah, we had to do that.
[00:05:00] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Well, the thing I was reading on it was says, you know, spirituality, they talk about fluid and open. Spirituality is typically more open minded, allowing for exploration and freedom of belief, where certain dogma is, feels very constricting.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: Very constricting on purpose.
[00:05:18] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: And one of the things that I always remember about spirituality when I first begun was I got, I was allowed to question everything. Guys, imagine that like as you go through question everything, because when you question things, you're going to go deeper and you're going to find those answers. Right. And that's also going to help you evolve into. Okay, that makes more sense. I align to that Better. But when you have something that is completely. No, you cannot question it. You need to follow it. To me, it doesn't really sound very freeing. And I'm like a firm believer. If it's. If it doesn't give me freedom, I want nothing to do with it.
[00:05:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Another thing I was hearing about was how the word universe is a lot more used in spirituality. They're saying that connection to the universe is a little bit more on the spiritual side because it's connecting people with unity and interconnectedness, transcending the labels or dogmas, where it's just sometimes, again, that structure you could feel into. Does it. I often say to people, do you feel expansive? Do you feel your energy flow and get big and possibilities and your energy just kind of vibrate and be higher? Or when you go to a class or a ceremony or a church or wherever, do you feel like you're kind of being pulled in or boxed? Do you notice how you feel? And we're not telling anybody not to go to their churches or anything like that. We're just exploring some of the pitfalls and ways that we have seen, you know, observed in and also our personal lived experiences of what it's like to come from being raised in a religious background to where we are today. And many times you might be the only one in your family, and the rest are all in this religious system. And so they might not even know how to relate to you or talk to you. So you kind of find this area that you try not to talk about. You know, don't they say at certain parties, like, don't bring up politics, religion, you know, these kinds of things? Yeah.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: You know what's funny about you saying it? You know, the spiritual is expansiveness, right. And inclusiveness and unity. And many religions are like, right, you're doing. You're in the wrong religion. Ours is better than yours.
[00:07:42] Speaker C: Right.
[00:07:42] Speaker B: That is not.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: That is the exact same.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Exactly. And, you know, even as a kid, I wondered that because, you know, like, when they tell you, you know, Christians, the only religion. And I was thinking, well, what do the people in India think about that? I mean, I was like, in second grade having that thought.
[00:07:58] Speaker C: You know, that definitely shows how different you. Because you were thinking of things that were not.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: I was thinking, well, they think the same thing, too. What? What? Right.
[00:08:07] Speaker C: One thing I heard a lot was, the one true church. This is the one true church.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: This is.
[00:08:12] Speaker C: This is restored gospel to this time. And I remember as a kid just being like, how am I in the only one? I Mean, I just was kind of like these were thoughts that I had. Yeah. So you thought I'd stumbled somehow upon the only one real church that there is. Of all the, you know, you drive in a new city just as a new thing because I was new in a new city in North Carolina. Look at all the churches you. There are some places that have like, oh my gosh, all these different types of beliefs that's like, I don't even know what that one believes in. What does that one believe? But certain areas will either have a proliferation, a very large. Different types of belief systems. In some places less so. But noticing there is a lot of. Been branching off of certain concepts because they're like, we believe this, but we.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: Don'T believe that within the same supposed church.
[00:09:07] Speaker C: Right.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: I've got an example of that.
[00:09:08] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: I grew up Lutheran. Hey, funny how Scandinavians end up growing up Lutheran. Anyway, I can't remember both names, but they have something called a synod, and we were. Our church. The Lutheran church was one Synod. I can't remember the name of it now, but I remember the other one was called the Missouri Synod.
[00:09:27] Speaker C: What is a synod?
Is it like a let's look up the word?
[00:09:32] Speaker B: I don't know. It's just that, you know, that's what my parents used to call that word.
[00:09:36] Speaker C: Or wrong. Okay. I love it because I love learning new words.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: S, Y, N O D. An assembly of the clergy and sometimes also the laity in a diocese or other division of a particular church.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: Okay, so it's a division of that church. Okay, okay.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: There's a division within the division. It was crazy. So you're Lutheran.
[00:09:53] Speaker C: Right.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: But if you're Missouri Synod, you're wrong. That's what I grew up with. They're bad. They, they don't know what they're doing. They're, they're, they, they've twisted everything. So I'm. We're so glad we're not Missouri Synod. Okay, so even with a Lutheran.
[00:10:09] Speaker C: Right.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: And Lutherans are supposed to be kind of mellow compared to some of them.
[00:10:12] Speaker C: Right.
[00:10:12] Speaker B: But it was like it was hostile. Right. He's actually hostile toward this other synod. From what I witnessed as a child.
[00:10:19] Speaker C: Within their own. Within their own.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Within Lutheranism.
[00:10:22] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: Let alone anything else that says right, well, you know, Catholics are going to think the Lutherans are wrong. And, you know, the, the Episcopalians are going to say, well, we, you know, Catholic Catholicism was wrong. So that's why we broke off from them, you know, and then they're all going to condemn The Eastern religions or the, the Russian Orthodox or whatever, you know.
[00:10:41] Speaker C: Right.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: That's not expansion. So guys, that's not spirituality.
[00:10:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Also.
[00:10:47] Speaker C: Can you be spiritual? Sorry, with. Also in a religion. So if you're somebody that just happens to stumble upon this and you're actually maybe in a place of questioning, you know, is this what I've been raised in? Or I'm going now with my partner or whatever. This is where I'm at within a church system or religion. And you're feeling, well, I'm a spiritual person. Because I remember thinking that. I remember thinking, I'm a spiritual person.
Can you be both? Can you be a spiritual person within religion?
[00:11:16] Speaker B: Not according to the definition you gave us at the beginning, no.
[00:11:18] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: Okay. But I do want to mention something too, because I think this really ties well with what you just said. Is your belief system. What you believe in is one thing. The religious corporation is a complete another. Notice how I'm using those specific words. So if a lot of the times people would be like, oh, I'm this and this and this. What? The thing is, nobody can tell you what to believe in because those are your own personal beliefs. However, if you're gonna hang behind a church or an organization, you have to understand what that represents. They have done some awful things. Meaning when, like for example, when they first came in, anyone that wouldn't go for the church, they would kill them. And there been millions of people that have died because of religious differences.
That's where I always mention to people, what you believe is one thing. You are not the corporation itself, which is the religion itself.
[00:12:22] Speaker B: And why were so many torture chambers associated with those churches?
[00:12:27] Speaker A: There's far more than just that.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So you better know what you're following.
[00:12:32] Speaker C: Can you be a person saying, well, that was the past. That, that's, you know, that was a long time ago.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: You're.
[00:12:38] Speaker C: You're going to this church and you're like, someone brings that up in a conversation, like, well, that was the past. You know, they were being held by. Blah, blah, blah, being run by people.
That's not us today, basically. What would you say to that?
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Gaslighting.
[00:12:51] Speaker C: Gaslighting. Okay.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: That's one thing. The other thing too, as far as I know, it's still up to this day. Every single religion I've ever heard of is if you don't follow this, you're going to go to hell. So no, that's actually present time. That's not. That's still taking part of. It's like the, the cultivating of the core beliefs of a religion, it's still based on judgment. If you're not following what I'm telling you, you're going to go to hell. If you're not following our religion, you're going to go to hell. We are the one. We are the only one.
[00:13:22] Speaker C: Right. I think when I think back to some of my earlier ones, you know, that judgment is. Is one. One was. We are kind of elevated. We're different than everybody else. We're the chosen few.
So that always kind of was like, that doesn't really feel great. What does that mean? You know, I had so many questions as. As a kid that I was like, well, there was a lot that was supposed to take it on faith, like, you want these wonders of the universe? Because I was a very inquisitive child. I'm sure you guys both were too.
There wasn't answers to a lot of things that I had questions to. So I would have to kind of be like, okay, well, I guess if I meant to know, I would know. And since this information is not here, I'm gonna take it on faith. Yeah, that what is. What is meant for me, I will find out. And that's kind of how I worked within. When I was going to church regularly within a system that I would be like, okay, well, I guess I'm just going to rely on my faith. I don't need to know the answer to that. And that was kind of how I worked my way.
[00:14:28] Speaker B: Oh, is that a trap? Because. Yes. Then you're not learning, are you putting.
[00:14:34] Speaker C: Actually and then also putting your power into, you know, something else outside yourself to be like, well, I guess if I'm, you know, meant to know, I will. And it's somebody else's job to include me in. And, you know, I think it's sometimes a fine line of where you're at as to. Because we're. We're meant to evolve and grow. So, like, we were at this one place and now we're here, and there was a progression of things that happened for us to be where we are now.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Well, I'm just. Well, you're talking. All I can think of, and this is based on my observations, is organized religion is part of a control system.
[00:15:19] Speaker C: You know, as we even talk about this, I think of the memories. I can feel my body. I don't know how you guys are feeling, but I felt the energy just shift just a little bit ago, and my body was like, oh, this is feeling a little messy.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: So part of that, like, for example, when I grew up. I always felt so excluded in. One of the things that I still up to this day remember is when we went on Sundays to church school, they would divide us so they would have, like, church and then I would have, like, church school. And I remember how the other kids would bully me by using verses from the church on how gay people would end up going to hell. And I remember those adults, instead of even saying anything that was kind of like bringing it back to just kind of subtle, they would agree with it. And I would always think, like, that's why it was so interesting to me, because I never fell for that. This is the only God. Because I'm like, how can you tell me on one end that this is a loving God, and then the other one that it's going to take, like, send me to hell or I'm gonna burn in hell. Like, it had. It had no substance of realism. Think about it. Think about how drastic it is between one definition. So when I started my spiritual journey, I asked Source the connection within, because the thing is, we see, for example, an example of that is Jesus. I see him as a teacher of what we are able to do as we work on ourselves. They see him as a father, as their God type thing, which he never wanted to. And I said, so how can we divide the things between what is you and what is not? And so when I've connected with Jesus, he has said, if it's not loving towards yourself or towards others, it was never me. It was something that was created.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe righteousness.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Righteousness and judgment.
[00:17:15] Speaker C: How things get twisted and polluted and changed from his original energy and frequency was to do. And then how that got manipulated and changed.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: One thing I didn't know at the beginning of my spiritual journey was the term Christ consciousness. So I think a lot of people who maybe had experiences like the three of us did, who don't want anything right now to do with any. That sounds like church dogma. You might be a little resistant to the term Christ consciousness, but it's. It's exactly what Amaral's talking about. You know, it's your heart centeredness. It's your seeing the other man as yourself, loving yourself so that you can love others.
[00:17:50] Speaker C: Do unto others as I would do unto you. There are some scriptures in there which I will feel the frequency of and be like, there are certain ones where I'm like, I feel like this is a true message. And other ones where I was like, and the ones that did were around this loving others, love others as you know, love unto others that I've done unto you.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: So Christ consciousness is also called Buddha consciousness for a reason. For the people who are new, it can also be called Horus consciousness. You know, if you look at Egyptian Mithra consciousness if you're from Persia. So there's, it's, it's really oh Shiva, you know, Shakti and Shiva, Shiva. So it's, it's really connecting to the, the word I'm getting from my guides is glory. The glory of the feeling of being connected to that heart centered God. Feeling like I guess divine. The divine. I don't want to get away from the word God. But that connection to the divine where you're emitting that out, you're feeling that centeredness and that love.
So if you do hear the word Christ consciousness to people who are new, it's got nothing to do with the church dogma.
It's really got to do with a state of being.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:19:06] Speaker C: I was online and I was looking at some responses and it wasn't really a religious but it was something like universe. And somebody came on and said we need to get away from all of this universe, source, whatever. Because they were triggered that people were using other words instead of God. And it's like, okay. So this person's perception to me of what I was reading through their comments was if you use this kind of languaging, you are not, you are heretical or you're, you're in a different path than, than us. And the part of the downfall is because everybody's gotten away from God. And it's like you can say it one way and I can say it another way, but I feel different about like there's differences here.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Well, if you're saying God, you're excluding the divine feminine. It should be divine, feminine, divine, masculine, working together to create. That's how science works. We have electric masculine energy and we have magnetic feminine energy. And everything is a reflection of a reflection of a reflection. So what they are attached to is the patriarchal system. God is male.
God is both male and female or nothing would exist.
[00:20:18] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: But they're not going to hear that. So yes, I can understand what. Anyway, we're not trying to offend anybody. We're just giving you what we've learned.
[00:20:27] Speaker C: It's a dance kind of topic to kind of get into. But we wanted to be aware because a lot of people are coming from a background of hey, I was raised this way.
[00:20:36] Speaker B: Yeah. And they're going to hold on to that as long as they want to. You Know, we can't, we're not trying to convert anybody. We're just giving you observations about what we've learned. So, you know, it's, it's just like when, when you're on the spiritual journey, it's funny. It's the opposite of judgment and righteousness. We're like, you just let, let them be. Let them be who they are. They've got free will. That is the ex, exact opposite of that churchy, rabbinical, self righteous stuff. Right, right.
[00:21:07] Speaker C: Anyway, I, I want to shift to what one. What I thought was funny when I first, when we first met was we were talking about everything was love and light.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that is the big trap in my opinion. When, when, when, when you go down the. Yeah, I, I, I'm very vocal about this one.
So one of the traps I see very clearly with the people on the spiritual path is that they fall into that love and light trap. And I could never even say that ever. I could. You know how they end an email or they say love and light and you know, I cringed. I would cringe every time I heard that. Because everything is not love and light. Once again, it's like the same thing as just saying God is masculine and forgetting the feminine. We are light and dark. We live in a world of polarity. Mastering in this plane and being spiritual is, is learning to marry your light and dark. To accept it, not let it rule you, not shun it away. So to say love and light all the time. Yeah, it sounds great. Sounds groovy, Sounds cool. It's really kind of, you know, hippie dippy. But you got to recognize light and dark exist simultaneously. So you are not all love and light. You never will be. That's why the love and light people have their ups and their downs as well. So I think the trap is thinking you're doing something wrong.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: If you're not always feeling lovey dovey, lighty, lighty.
[00:22:36] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean the part of the human experience and evolution is as we're here to experience a myriad of emotions. And so when that was kind of the, the what I was hearing a lot when I was on my path in the beginning. And so when I was not in a state of, that I was judging myself. I'm like, come on, you got to shift this out. You've got to get to the love and the light. So I would, you know, put a lot of pressure to be like, these are not okay emotions.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: But when you finally figure out the further you go on the spiritual is it's about balance.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:08] Speaker B: It's not love and light. It's how can I get myself back.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: In balance, but now bringing it back just because I want to, like, poke at it.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: Being the Scorpio. Yeah. But you might be poking a tiger.
[00:23:19] Speaker A: Watch out if you're feeling the shame, the guilt that you're not there. Doesn't that sound kind of like religion?
And so here's the thing. When we're so brought up in. In a. In a.
In a. In those kind of scenarios, then we think that everything has to translate to that. It's almost like I have a client that says, you know, I really like how you express yourself when you're talking about spirituality and stuff, but I always wonder, and I was going to ask you, can I ask you something? I said, sure. She's like, who's your leader? And I said, what?
Because she's like, on a religious base, there's always looking at someone on top of you to supposedly guide you, tell you, whatever. That's not how spirituality works. But it's so interesting how certain emotions can trigger the same kind of feelings of a religion if we don't look at them in a balanced way.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Balance. Yeah. And that goes to another trap that we were talking about before we start with the broadcast here. The trap of putting spiritual leaders or gurus on a pedestal.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:24:34] Speaker B: Which I think is easy to do early on in your spiritual journey. Oh, my gosh. Listen to this person. He or she is so enlightened. Oh, my gosh. Wow. I could never even imagine that. Oh, my gosh. I have to follow him or her. Oh, let me look at their website. I'm signing up for this. Oh, my gosh. It's $6,000.
I'm gonna go on this $6,000 spiritual journey with this guru or this spiritual mentor, and I'm going to come out of it, and I'm going to be all love and light and all beautiful and all that. And it's like, oh, my God, people.
[00:25:10] Speaker C: Well, and it's also like you're taking.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: Your power where before you're giving it to someone. Yes.
[00:25:15] Speaker C: Before you're just transference. Now I'm in.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: No, that doesn't mean there aren't good spiritual gurus.
[00:25:20] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: But a good spiritual guru only wants to help you to find your own empowerment and. And then move on. They don't want you dependent on them.
[00:25:30] Speaker C: I was thinking of Jesus and the story of the fisherman, like, teaching a man to fish. Like, you don't. As a guru, you can. We can all all of us are kind of spiritual mentors in a way. And so we want to teach people how to get there. We don't want them to be dependent on us and see us as their solution.
Especially with doing life coaching that I have, I try to be like, am I empowering them for their own answers, their own things? Are they through me? Because it is about them having the tools to be able to, you know, work on the things that their, their goals, their dreams or things they want to shift. I don't want them dependent on me. I want them to learn that for themselves. And I think when you have a good teacher who, who asks you things instead of always teaching at you.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: At you. That's a good way to say it.
[00:26:20] Speaker C: Yeah, it involves you in the process. You notice when I find in the beginning, when I first started, I would channel a lot of information and give people the answers they're coming. Because I was like, I want the answers to this. So I wanted to go to people for answers with, for information. But later on I noticed when you involve the person of what do you think? And you lead them and help create the space and guide them to their own answers, the aha, the epiphany is so much better than if I hand delivered and said this is it, it wouldn't mean anything. They have to find it for themselves.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the sign, good teacher. You point them to something which I.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Want to just narrow it down. So a good teacher is someone who empowers that doesn't create in someone that's not doing good. Teachings will create a dependency.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. So that's why you need to be used discernment. When you're looking at these spiritual teachers, is this coming from a place that feels like it's going to empower me or does it come from place where this person wants you to keep giving them your money, for example, or your time? Actually they want your energy. Now this is an interesting story, guys. I don't think you know this one, but this involves a guru.
And I went to a friend who was, she taught crystal, she had a crystal workshop and she also taught transcendental meditation. And she invited me to an event that I thought was going to be about crystals, but it turned out to be one of the meditations might not have been tm, but it was definitely associated with the energy of a certain guru. And I went, okay, well I'm just going to sit in the back because I can't sit cross legged on the floor. So I told them I'm Just going to sit on the couch in the back, and I'll just go with this, you know, since I'm here anyway. And the whole time I was moving my hands in light language, and it was like I was trying to push energy. I mean, I was pushing energy away. Oh, it was constantly pushing it away. And I couldn't, you know, my, my. My whole body was like, push, push, push. And then at the end of it, you know, we're gathering at the end, I said to the people, I don't know why my hands kept moving like this. And one guy said, yeah, I could feel you.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: Oh.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: And then I brought it up in my tarot classes when I was new to spirituality. And I asked about it in front of my tarot teacher. And the answer was, I was pushing away the guru because gurus take your energy.
[00:28:52] Speaker C: Oh, right.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: These people who are attached to the guru, give them.
Give the guru your energy, and the guru uses it. Now, I'm not saying gurus necessarily do it for good or bad reasons. It could be for good reasons. I just sat there and did not want him to touch my energy, apparently.
[00:29:11] Speaker C: So that was a learning moment.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: That's a guru trap. You know, are you going to give away your energy to this guru, or is that really what you want to do? And I think that does make you dependent personally. But what my teacher Eli said was, I think you've had enough past lives, either as a guru or working with gurus, that you said, I know what's happening here. Even though my conscious mind did not know my subconscious was working those hands to push that energy away.
[00:29:38] Speaker C: I remember having this conversation with you at one point where you were saying, I don't want to be a guru. And I could feel you're like, I don't want people coming to me thinking, you know, X, Y, and Z.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: Well, I want to help people, but I don't like, like we talked about, I don't want them dependent. I want them to learn how they can stand in their own power. Which is exactly what Christ consciousness is in spirituality.
[00:30:01] Speaker C: Exactly. And, you know, it doesn't. We are talking about spiritual or spirituality and religion and some of those traps. But I also noticed I would do that with other things with like, let's just say, for example, Tony Robbins. He even came out with a movie later, which is funny, called I'm not your guru, but there were certain people that I would be like this person up here on the mountain to me, you know, be like this person here who looks like they've got it all together. And they have a cultivated image and look how successful they are and all these things. It's like, look where you're putting your energy to be like, I'm putting certain people on a pedestal and I'm giving.
You know, it's one thing to be teaching things and it's another thing to be like you have to do it this way or so just kind of notice what, how you feel do those check ins. And I think a big part of it is questioning.
[00:30:52] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. But once again, when you're in a trap, you don't see it.
[00:30:56] Speaker C: Right.
[00:30:56] Speaker B: So it's not until you start asking the questions that you can.
And some people are comfortable in their traps.
[00:31:03] Speaker C: And sometimes, and I would say it's the feeling too, like you felt first felt a feeling of something being off or they would say a belief system or they're teaching you something and then you start kind of quite like the questioning. But also it came from a feeling something's off.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And if you're doing something right, you're going to grow your teachers at some point anyway.
[00:31:21] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: You know, because they're good for teaching you at a certain level. And then if you shift change and grow, you're ready for a new teacher and that's fine.
[00:31:30] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:31:31] Speaker A: And I also want to clear something out too, because this I can definitely relate to.
When you start your spiritual journey, you're going to see people that are very gifted and more advanced. And the reason why they're more advanced is they work on themselves more. Eventually everybody taps into their, I mean we all have intuition and then gifts will come up from that. So sometimes those gifts seem so wonderful and you're like, oh, I just want to make sure that I wanna, like, I want to learn how to do that. But we're all gifted in so many different ways that it's up to every single one of us to discover our gifts on our own. Just because someone might be very strong in like seeing things, which I forgot the technical term clairvoyance doesn't mean that maybe your gifts, your, maybe your gifts are going to be more about hearing. And it is like a muscle. And you can work on any of them to build them up. But nonetheless, when you first start out, you're like, wow, these people are amazing and stuff. But that doesn't mean they want to be put up in the top of a pedestal because they understand that they once upon a time were like you, where they were just exploring. They were finding out their gifts themselves and that you will eventually get there.
[00:32:45] Speaker C: I don't know if you guys had this thought or, you know, see it as a trap, but that when you are on the right path, everything's gonna go easy.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:32:55] Speaker B: Well, isn't that what we do?
Maybe I didn't phrase it, but properly at the beginning. I was trying to get to that, too.
[00:33:02] Speaker C: Yeah. Because you think, oh, if I'm on the right track, there won't be any obstacles. It'll be, oh, I'm. I found my path, I found this. It's just gonna be smooth sailing from here.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: Yeah. But if. If spirituality is expansion, if you get to that true path and you stay stuck.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: There needs to be.
[00:33:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: Fill in the blanks.
[00:33:22] Speaker C: Right. Things are stagnant or you're not growing.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: Right.
[00:33:25] Speaker C: You know, it's like, oh, I've just, you know, a lot of times we're very kind of habitual, like, routine. Every Sunday I go and do a this and. And then that's. That's all they do. They don't carry it over into their life, but they're thinking, I'm checking a box. I'm going to church. I'm doing what's right. And. But it's like they're not really living that. I think that's one thing I looked at as a kid was seeing concepts being taught and then go home and see how people acted in their lives. And I'm like, that's not. That's not it. This is incongruent. Like, there's something off here. So either you're not truly converted or believe in that thing.
[00:34:02] Speaker B: Well, another place where people get stuck. And this is something I also learned from my spiritual teacher, Eli. And you can see. See it at some point, but you may not when you're in the midst of it, is that a lot of people on the spiritual path think that once they start experiencing a little, even a little touch of the Christ consciousness, they think they're done.
But more importantly, they think, oh, my gosh, I've got this skill now. You know, my third eye is open, and I'm seeing fairies now, and I'm communicating with unicorns. Oh, how cool is that? And then they don't go any further. So Eli says, that's the astral plane, the plane of illusion, where we have our imagination, our daydreams. So that's fine. But there's more when it comes to expansion. That's why I think a lot of people don't do the shadow work. They think they're done the minute they see a leprechaun or Some fairy light or something.
[00:34:59] Speaker C: They think I've crossed over.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: I'm the man now. You know, I'm the.
[00:35:05] Speaker C: I'm seeing this stuff. So I'm there. I've arrived.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:35:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, that is a trap.
[00:35:11] Speaker A: That's one of the traps. And then the other one is, I can personally say for. Speak on this is there's people that also start working on their spirituality. And then pretty soon they let it go because then they start thinking, like, wait a second, I'm thinking too differently now. Now I can no longer really relate to everyone else. So it's almost like, because they need this validation by everyone else, they stop working on themselves because somehow they think they're going to be different. Which I never understood that.
[00:35:42] Speaker B: But that's giving power to an outside source again.
[00:35:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:46] Speaker C: I think the other thing that is. Has been good for me to witness is people that I put on a pedestal and then they've done something that I really think, how could they have done that? Because I have thought of them as almost, you know, perfect in a way. And then they get caught up in maybe something that is a very much of a human experience. And then it's like, oh, okay, They're. They're. Just because you esteem that they know all this knowledge doesn't mean that they're infallible to the temptations or things that happen. Where people have. Things happen to them. And it's like, okay, it doesn't absolve you of the. There are pitfalls and lessons and paths that we all have. And just because one person is like, here doesn't mean that they can't. They are immune to these other experiences. And I'm thinking of a particular friend of ours.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: Oh, I can think of two of them. Or I've seen people do that.
[00:36:38] Speaker C: And I just went, okay, I'm learning through this experience that, you know, I kind of thought this wouldn't happen if you were that. You know.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: But it's interesting when. When people put them on a pedestal, then they don't live up to their expectations. Expectations. How they. I've seen people cut them off.
And so it's.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: That's so judgmental though, too.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: I know. And.
[00:37:00] Speaker C: But it's also like where you're at in your journey. Because I can look and see. Oh, I've done certain things where I've. I was like, oh, you.
I feel like you failed me. Or I. You're not what I thought you were. Well, I've changed. And now I've come around to where some of those things that I may have pushed someone away. I could be like, oh, I can see where I was. They triggered something within me to be like, okay, so it's, it's so interesting.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: But then you're expanding and you're learning from that.
[00:37:32] Speaker A: Well, anything that's inside of us, that somebody, when somebody else is doing anything that bothers you, it's a magnetic charge that's coming within you, that's connecting with you. And that's why it's making you feel uncomfortable. But on the depthness of it and on really finding, going deeper, you're going to find out it's something within you. Because in reality, anyone can be whoever they want to be, but it's up to you for your own growth and to go the certain path. Nobody else has the power to stop you, to make you feel so uncomfortable that you're going to just automatically freak out over. Unless there's something within you that's connecting to that energy.
[00:38:12] Speaker C: I think the other thing too is being really patient and kind with yourself. Because I noticed the areas where I do kind of fall back to, and I don't know if it's from that religious upbringing, but judgment. So I notice I don't even realize I'm doing it sometimes. And then I'll be like, oh, there was judgment in there. I've gotten way better. But I used to have a lot of like, right and wrong, good, bad, you know, black and white thinking a bit. And then it's like, okay, if, if I've evolved, I'm getting away from these kinds of things and, and seeing more people as a whole instead of, okay, they made a mistake or they did something that is just their journey. And I shouldn't be here judging that and, and making assumptions about now who I think they are.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: Oh, that's a good word. Assumptions.
[00:39:04] Speaker A: Think that something that's good to just put in perspective what we're here to do. So we're here to learn about all these emotions. We're here to learn lessons. And we're here, we're here to heal them. So when you have that and grasp that, then you no longer.
The thing is, there's so many things that need to really break apart from you, and that's part of you. Like there's not really good or bad. There's energy, and it's misunderstood energy. And then there's things that align with you. There's things, for example, everyone has their own journey and whatever their lessons are, have absolutely nothing to do with you. And sometimes it's so easy because I've done myself where I judge others and say, like, oh, well, I don't even understand why they're doing that or how could they do that? But in reality, that's their lesson to learn. Yes, you do. Like, so let's say they do something destructive or that it's against you. Yes, you have every reason to have stronger, build stronger boundaries and to step away and say, you know what? I'm not aligning with that person anymore. But nonetheless, you're not a victim. And I think that that's what spirituality has really taught me is that I'm not a victim to anything. I'm not victim to any kind of thing that could happen in my life. I'm not a victim of anyone because it's all a perspective of outlook. If something truly gets me down or offends me, it's because it's something within me that I need to work on and that I cannot blame anybody else for. Because my evolution has to do with me seeing things from a broader perspective rather than being so closed up that any. Like, nobody's gonna walk on eggshells for you. That's the one thing I can definitely say. But we can all learn from. Don't see your triggers in anything that anybody does is something to victimize. You see them as, like, little areas where you can get some help on. Like, okay, so that's bothered me. So I need to look further and see what is really there. That's like, help that's trying to hint at me, like, hey, you're forgetting me. Honestly, the true thing about our journey and our spiritual growth is we don't escape things because they'll turn around and they'll come back to you.
I have worked so hard on myself, and I can tell you there's so many layers to things. And sometimes just when you think like, hey, well, wait a second, I already took care of that. And then it comes out in complete different layer. Well, that different layer is a new way of looking at things.
[00:41:45] Speaker B: That's something that needs healing.
[00:41:46] Speaker A: Exactly. So don't look at it as an enemy thing or something against you. It's something there to help you.
[00:41:56] Speaker B: Well, another thing that I was thinking about when you were talking about, you know, being judgmental or righteous is that even in the spiritual community, we see that.
[00:42:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:07] Speaker B: So for the example I was bringing up, if you look into the Galactics and the Starseed community. Yes. I think most of us would say we're starseeds. I guess there's a few people who might have their origin here right on Earth. But I think the vast majority would identify as Starseeds. And within that community, there's judgment, you know, because one of the. One of the things I noticed when I was looking is, you know, like, a lot of people think the Arcturians or the Lyrans are like the high that you'll hear them say, we're the highest vibrating species, and they kind of hold it up like a badge of honor. And one of the things that you brought up was that then we'll look down on something like a Draco or Reptilian. And yeah, I don't like what a lot of them do. But then Amaral pointed out not all Reptilians, there are some benevolent ones.
[00:43:03] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:43:04] Speaker B: And so there's a tendency to look down on certain, even galactic races. It's kind of, you know, everything's a reflection of reflection of reflection. Right. I mean, we see it within humanity, but it's also going on within how people perceive galactics within the Starseed community. And as an example of what Emeril was pointing out, one of my friends is Rob Gauthier, and he is a channeler, very world renowned. He's called the ET Whisperer. And he channels two beings and one of them is called Treb. And Treb is a benevolent Reptilian. And if you ever hear Treb come through him, he's always very pleasant.
He talks to people with a lot of respect.
And when you say something that hits the mark, it's so cute because he goes, yes.
So whenever you hear him channeling Treb, you hear, yes, quite a few times. So, you know, so I guess that's another thing to bring up. And then, you know, one of the things that I discovered through working with my. My teacher Eli, because he sees auras and he saw my aura and went, oh, my gosh, I don't see a lot of people like you. And he goes, you're like me. And he goes, what do you mean? He goes, you're Orion.
And so Orion's within the Starseed community, have a good reputation because it's Anunnaki. A lot of people think Anunnakis are Reptilians. They are not. If you look at the Sumerian tablets, you're going to see they look like human beings, not Reptilians. But then within. But what people don't realize, within the Anunnaki, the ones who came to Earth to help seed Earth, there were two factions.
So, yes, we don't like Anunnaki because one faction wanted to wipe out the humans after they had been created yet. But the other faction supported humanity.
So it's like, no, not all Anunnaki wanted to wipe humanity out. So I guess.
I guess what I'm saying is just my observations is that I have seen some judgments within the people who call themselves star seeds as well.
[00:45:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, It's. It is interesting to see, you know, as above, so below, we're talking about religion down here. And then this stuff up here that's within the realms of the star seeds and stuff is that one is, you know, this one's better. Even when people say if I'm spiritual, oh, that's the Muggle. That's that they're less than because they're not awoke. Awoken. Awakened. And so I am more up here because I'm really in the know. I have this knowledge that there's more and you're here. And it's like, we are not meant to do that either.
[00:45:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So we know what trap that I'm talking about with Starseed and you know what trap we're talking about with what you just said. It's the ego trap. And one thing that. Another thing Eli told me about is you better believe that Galactics have egos.
Just because they're not here on Earth doesn't mean they're divorced of egos. They might be at a different strength than ours, but they do exist. So anyway, when we go back to spirituality and about expansion, well, expansion would be okay. Everyone's different. Isn't that great?
[00:46:29] Speaker C: And isn't that actually. Think about that. That if you're having the same meal every single day or the same experience every single day, if we were all the same, like, how bland and boring would our world be if everybody was alike? Like, we don't. So much has been, oh, you're different than me. So we're creating this division, but we're actually all unity consciousness. You know, what somebody does here, it does have an effect on a collective. So we're really. What we're doing, and this is something I try to remember now, more consciously too, is if I'm having a negative thought, if I'm doing something here, there's something within me because we're connected. So I am actually. When I'm harming them, I'm also harming myself.
[00:47:14] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:47:15] Speaker C: So that's one where I'm kind of like trying to be in the space of having more awareness around.
[00:47:22] Speaker B: But that comes with practice and maturity on your spiritual journey, which you will Develop. You will develop as people who are new. I came from a place where, to be honest with you, when I first started my spiritual journey, everybody was telling me I was Palladian. All these psychics I went to, oh, yeah, you're Palladian. I kept hearing it over, so I kept. I fell into that trap. Oh, I'm Palladian. Palladians are great. They're all about love. And, you know, there are close to humans. And oh, yeah, I'm so great because I'm a Pleiadian. It wasn't till I saw Eli. He went and he told me I was Orion because he saw my aura. And I went, but everybody's telling me I'm Palladian. And do you know what he said to me? They're telling you that because they're afraid to go as deep as I go.
Okay. So I was like, oh, anyway, so you talked about a trap that. From a past life. Let's talk about that.
[00:48:18] Speaker A: Okay, so this one is really interesting because you wouldn't think it would be a trap. And then everybody nowadays, they're like, oh, my gosh, if. If I was like, if I could leave this. This life that I have, I would go, and what? I'm supposed to become a monk.
So becoming a monk is another trap. And I'll tell you why it's a trap. So I've had previous lifetime as a monk, as a Buddhist monk, to be exact. And when I gone back to those timelines, what usually happens is people, they go into the monks because it's so peaceful. There's not really much emotions that they get through, so they get trapped and not evolving. It's a repeated thing. And then what they like that lifetime so much, they're like, okay, I want my next lifetime to be a Buddhist monk. And becomes a trap. Because you're reborn into a place where you cannot grow in. As opposed to what? The popular belief is that being a monk is like the greatest thing as far as growing. You actually don't grow. You kind of.
[00:49:21] Speaker B: You do grow, but only to a certain point.
[00:49:23] Speaker A: Exactly. But then you don't get to experience the emotions that. That is what we're here for. Because, yes, peace is great. Yes, connecting to enlightened parts of yourself is great. But also feeling those emotions help you evolve. And unfortunately, as a Buddhist monk or any kind of monk, you can only get to a certain level. And then after that, you become. You get trapped in this thing. Almost like the outer world is something to fear about. This world of being a monk is A safe space.
[00:49:56] Speaker C: Like, if you're always in a safe place in a similar, same environment, you're not growing as much because you're not stretching yourself with new experiences. When everything's sterile and similar and controlled and defined, it's like, oh, we don't allow this here, but we were teaching this and this.
You're not having all of these other emotions to go along with it because you're keeping yourself constantly in peace.
[00:50:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:20] Speaker C: It's like, oh, yeah, that sounds great. Very peaceful. But, you know, the same. And it could be anything, you know, going in a covenant or becoming, you know, I'm gonna leave and go into service and I'm gonna leave society. And some people are doing that now where they're leaving their lives to go to a more peaceful. That's not kind of what we're talking about. But there is a mastery involved in coming here and seeing. Okay, we're also meant to have co creation. You were mentioning, you know, we're coming here for different things. It was also to co create and see what we could, you know, work together and build. In my opinion. That's just one of my thoughts. What would, what would be yours on that, Lola, as far as, you know, coming to Earth and having these experiences?
[00:51:05] Speaker B: Well, we are here to learn the Earth experiences. And the Earth experiences are dealing with some of the most unique and hardest lessons. So we are the masters coming here because we're dealing with polarity, number one. We're dealing with lots of emotions.
We are also dealing with. I had sensations.
[00:51:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:31] Speaker B: And oh my gosh, our sensations are intoxicating.
[00:51:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:35] Speaker C: You know, well, all that knowledge being cut off. We come here, we. We have to come as a blank slate where we don't remember all of these other wisdoms and things that we've created from other lifetimes from. So, yeah, you're coming here in terms.
[00:51:48] Speaker B: Of a video game. We're playing the master's game. It's like, okay, I'm going to sign up for here. I want to be.
I want to learn the challenges, like, for me, of being a Gemini. So I want to be really like, my mind is going a mile a minute. Let's see how I handle that. And then I'm going to set myself up with two parents who looked like they were in love until the kids came and now they're fighting. Okay.
And then I want to be born in a certain place. That's going to make it more of a challenge for me to be who I, you know, really want to be.
[00:52:19] Speaker C: Scandinavian versus Asia now you wanted to be.
[00:52:22] Speaker B: I wanted to be Asian. Here I am. Oh, and then I got this sibling I didn't want and got a lesson about how to deal with that, you know, and then. But I don't remember anything I learned before. So I'm a master level because you just, you know, we all love to be armchair quarterbacks. Sign me up for this, you know. So yeah, if you're here on earth, you have decided to go for the.
[00:52:45] Speaker C: Gusto and be here at the time of all of this. Great.
[00:52:49] Speaker B: Yeah. But you know what the frustrating thing is? We had to go through a whole bunch of karmic life to get to this point.
[00:52:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:52:55] Speaker B: You know, so I think that's what that means that, that it has been a constant video game.
[00:53:01] Speaker A: This is a really crazy thing to add to that is the. One of the biggest lessons that was for me to learn was detachment.
So when you start mastering into detachment is about cutting off those ties that of everyone around you. Like your own family. You can. You still love them. You're never going to stop loving them. But they played many characters with you in other past lifetimes. Most of the times you're aligned to people, especially the people that you have the most issues with. It's karmic lessons that you're trying to heal.
But the low law of attachments means you are not attached to anything. You're not attached to a race, you're not attached to even. You are a soul living a human experiences. You're learning lessons. That's it. You are absolutely nothing else. And when you release that detachment from things, you see things in such a broader perspective. And the biggest thing is about finding that balance, that peaceful part within yourself. To not be able to judge others, to be able to live your life and understand where people are coming from and respect them at their place that they're at on their their own journey.
You guys want to add anything to that?
[00:54:25] Speaker B: Well, that would be free from righteousness, wouldn't it?
[00:54:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:54:29] Speaker C: Having those free will choices to make our to learn and grow and to.
[00:54:33] Speaker B: Understand they have free will choices as well.
[00:54:35] Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:54:37] Speaker B: And you don't have to approve of those choices, but you also don't have to condemn them. You don't give them there don't even give them your energy. Just allow them to vibrate out of your existence. If they're not, they're not a good match for you unless there is a lesson you haven't learned yet. Sometimes they won't vibrate out or a.
[00:54:56] Speaker C: New one's Coming in. And it's, it's a different, it's the same lesson, a different character now coming in. Because you haven't learned it.
[00:55:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Because a classic lesson would be the woman who stays with the man who. It's not a good relationship. But they, you know, so sometimes the karmic lesson is to walk away from the relationship and they haven't managed to do it. Another light that life. That's just an example. They can be more extreme than that.
[00:55:20] Speaker A: And it is an egotistical act to think that people need to wake up so that you can be okay with them. Yeah, that's very ego driven, you know.
[00:55:31] Speaker B: But that is one of the traps at the beginning of spirituality. You're trying to convert people.
[00:55:35] Speaker A: Oh dear rescuers, you learn from religion.
One person that needs to rescue the world.
[00:55:44] Speaker B: I've got a good answer for you now everybody listen.
[00:55:47] Speaker C: Yeah, I think thank goodness we're at this place now where we can. It's a lot more peaceful because you're not feeling all this tension to fix, correct, educate. You're in a state of allowance and acceptance of people for who they are, loving them for who they are staying also staying in that love frequency. Don't you find that like that's why loved. I just love that. I love love.
But when you're in that, you are embodying more grace, more love, more kindness, more compassion. And that can help work through these conditions, these programs, these ways you've been raised of judgment and all these other things around religion or you've seen in our society where we judge other people.
[00:56:33] Speaker B: Also when you are loving, letting people unconditional love is letting them just do learn from their mistakes. Right. But also unconditional love for ourselves. So one of the best things is seeing is laughing when you realize, oh my God, I'm in that trap right now and I know better.
Oh, I fell into it again.
Or to say who I. I do see that trap now and laugh about the fact that you were once in it.
[00:57:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:57:02] Speaker A: And everything is a growth. So even when you are in this loving state, in this understanding and allowing people to have their own journey because you're raising your vibration, you're also going to bring people with that raised vibration. And so you're even your relationships with people are going to change drastically. You're no longer dealing with people that are completely off. You're going to be dealing with people that are more connected to your frequency or people that are definitely off match with that frequency. They're going to be pushed off. So far from you. You're no longer going to have the same relationships you were having once upon a time.
[00:57:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:57:41] Speaker A: Good.
[00:57:42] Speaker C: Good conversation. I like the things that we all brought up together.
[00:57:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And once again, we're not trying to cause controversy. We're kind of, look, pointing out the traps we were in.
[00:57:53] Speaker C: Yeah. We'd be interested in what traps that you've seen from your life and your journey, should you want to share those with us.
[00:57:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And if you like the episode at all, please let other people know, because everyone can learn and grow from what we're sharing here, even us.
[00:58:09] Speaker A: And sharing is caring.
[00:58:11] Speaker C: Thank you so much for spending your time with us.
